When discussion is had of the GOATs of European royalty, you can't have the discussion without Sobieski. His victory at Vienna is nothing short of the stuff of legends. I like to think I'm well-versed in history, too, but I've never heard of the "The Deluge" before - though, now I'm probably going to have to binge read about it. It sounds remarkably similar to the Time of Troubles in Russia, when the entire country was basically being torn apart in all directions.
That all being said, I was recently in Vienna and, for as momentous as the breaking of the siege was, there was remarkably little to commemorate it in the city. There are statues of pretty much everyone of any repute that played any part in the city's history, but none of Sobieski. There's not even a monument commemorating the event that I found. I did discover, while doing research for this comment to make sure I wasn't just talking out of my ass, that there was a statue made of Sobieski that was intended to be placed in Vienna in 2018 to commemorate the 335th anniversary of his victory, it was rejected by the city's mayor for being "anti-Turkish". Apparently, even in Poland, where the statue was ultimately erected in Krakow, it was controversial because, er... something something Anders Brevik because he mentioned the Siege of Vienna in his manifesto once. And he's not even Polish.
I know the partitioning of Poland is often repeated in many circles, but it truly is tragic that just over a hundred years later Catherine the Great Russia along with Prussia and Austria would “thank Poland” by gobbling them up for over a hundred years. And I say this as a supporter of the Habsburgs.
I can’t help but think part of the reason there is no statue of Sobieski in Vienna is because of this. So far as I know relations between the two countries weren’t great in the intervening years and the Habsburgs probably didn’t want to admit that a Pole had saved them. In my opinion, the partitioning of Poland was as much a mistake as the other European powers allowing Imperial Russia to fall.
I might be biased biased because I have Polish heritage but at the same time, I like to imagine would have been best if they maintained their sovereignty.
We should remember both Sobieski’s victory and the great Croatian victory of 1566 at Sziget. The gallant defenders died but so delayed the Turks that they were unable to mount a similar offensive until the siege of Vienna a century later.
Excellent, as always. My husband and I have watched the Siege of Vienna film but now I will need to watch it again in light of your essay. It is amazing how one hesitates, another seizes the moment and history is made. May men of courage continue to step in the gap.
One of the reasons I went to Vienna (apart from the music and the art and the pastries and the Schnitzel) was to understand the significance of its location and why it was so important. This post helped add a new dimension to that experience. Thanks very much. Also—if anyone is thinking about visiting—consider going to Forchtenstein, the only castle in the Hungarian borderlands (now in Austria) never conquered by the Turks. The collection of armor, increased year by year as they open various sealed rooms, is astonishing.
I have read, multiple times from multiple sources, claims that Tolkien's Battle of the Pelennor Fields with its Charge of the Rohirrim was inspired by Vienna 1683.
And if that is somehow not true.... it ought to be.
Heady write-up. Hopefully Eastern Europe can return to some semblance of glory with leaders like Orban.
The day of nobleman is dead as of now. Our feckless, cowardly leaders hold sway because of massive corporations and their money. Hopefully it can come back.
PS. Ottoman Empire had at least another 200+ good years left in them, albeit weaker.
I wouldn’t call them good years; they were ground down by Russia in the east until the Ottomans basically had to be propped up by the British and French as a counterbalance. Britain in particular worked to prevent Russia from retaking Constantinople. They would have done so otherwise. And of course the whole thing fell apart after WWI, as with so many other empires.
When discussion is had of the GOATs of European royalty, you can't have the discussion without Sobieski. His victory at Vienna is nothing short of the stuff of legends. I like to think I'm well-versed in history, too, but I've never heard of the "The Deluge" before - though, now I'm probably going to have to binge read about it. It sounds remarkably similar to the Time of Troubles in Russia, when the entire country was basically being torn apart in all directions.
That all being said, I was recently in Vienna and, for as momentous as the breaking of the siege was, there was remarkably little to commemorate it in the city. There are statues of pretty much everyone of any repute that played any part in the city's history, but none of Sobieski. There's not even a monument commemorating the event that I found. I did discover, while doing research for this comment to make sure I wasn't just talking out of my ass, that there was a statue made of Sobieski that was intended to be placed in Vienna in 2018 to commemorate the 335th anniversary of his victory, it was rejected by the city's mayor for being "anti-Turkish". Apparently, even in Poland, where the statue was ultimately erected in Krakow, it was controversial because, er... something something Anders Brevik because he mentioned the Siege of Vienna in his manifesto once. And he's not even Polish.
Laughable.
Such cringing unworthiness of a proud legacy. It’s what happens when you’re ruled by stock-jobbers and bureaucrats rather than noblemen.
I know the partitioning of Poland is often repeated in many circles, but it truly is tragic that just over a hundred years later Catherine the Great Russia along with Prussia and Austria would “thank Poland” by gobbling them up for over a hundred years. And I say this as a supporter of the Habsburgs.
I can’t help but think part of the reason there is no statue of Sobieski in Vienna is because of this. So far as I know relations between the two countries weren’t great in the intervening years and the Habsburgs probably didn’t want to admit that a Pole had saved them. In my opinion, the partitioning of Poland was as much a mistake as the other European powers allowing Imperial Russia to fall.
I might be biased biased because I have Polish heritage but at the same time, I like to imagine would have been best if they maintained their sovereignty.
We should remember both Sobieski’s victory and the great Croatian victory of 1566 at Sziget. The gallant defenders died but so delayed the Turks that they were unable to mount a similar offensive until the siege of Vienna a century later.
I clearly have not yet read enough history. What a tale!
This is why God sent us a Librarian!
Excellent, as always. My husband and I have watched the Siege of Vienna film but now I will need to watch it again in light of your essay. It is amazing how one hesitates, another seizes the moment and history is made. May men of courage continue to step in the gap.
Always infuriated by the complete whitewashing of the Polish in particular and their sacrifice to keep Europe Christian.
It is no cohensidence that Polish and other East Europeans are denigrated and mocked today.
They stopped the Muslim onslaught. Perhaps they will do it again.
You crushed this bro!
Excellent Article. God Save Poland, Germany, Hungary, and Europa!
Sobieski is also the namesake of a decent downmarket brand of Vodka.
It also conquers those who face it.
Lol
One of the reasons I went to Vienna (apart from the music and the art and the pastries and the Schnitzel) was to understand the significance of its location and why it was so important. This post helped add a new dimension to that experience. Thanks very much. Also—if anyone is thinking about visiting—consider going to Forchtenstein, the only castle in the Hungarian borderlands (now in Austria) never conquered by the Turks. The collection of armor, increased year by year as they open various sealed rooms, is astonishing.
Thank you. If I ever get the chance, I would very much enjoy that.
I wanted to go for decades and finally made it in my late fifties. Hang on. It meant a lot more to me then that it would have earlier.
I have read, multiple times from multiple sources, claims that Tolkien's Battle of the Pelennor Fields with its Charge of the Rohirrim was inspired by Vienna 1683.
And if that is somehow not true.... it ought to be.
I’ve heard the same thing and it makes total sense to me.
Poland never gets any credit and is still standing firm on Sobieskis principles. Good for them!!
I will never hear enough about Jan and his charge.
Dude what’s up with a Polish leader leading a defense gain at the Mongols a few hundred years before this? Is that a thing?
It may have something to do with the Lajkonik tradition.
Heady write-up. Hopefully Eastern Europe can return to some semblance of glory with leaders like Orban.
The day of nobleman is dead as of now. Our feckless, cowardly leaders hold sway because of massive corporations and their money. Hopefully it can come back.
PS. Ottoman Empire had at least another 200+ good years left in them, albeit weaker.
I wouldn’t call them good years; they were ground down by Russia in the east until the Ottomans basically had to be propped up by the British and French as a counterbalance. Britain in particular worked to prevent Russia from retaking Constantinople. They would have done so otherwise. And of course the whole thing fell apart after WWI, as with so many other empires.
Your best essay yet, and those words of Jan are the very best one could say after such a feat, and such a life. Loved this one.
I enjoy writing history very much. They don’t always get as much attention as some of my other works, but their my favorite.
And they are your best works, love your history articles X)
Blessed Pope Innocent XI, pray for us🙏✝️