93 Comments
User's avatar
Shirlee's avatar

“It’s love.” As simple as that and yet it says so much. An orphan (my mother) and a farmer (my father) with an 8th grade education raised 9 children, and left behind 70 direct descendents all because of love. When I had a young adult tell me with a sense of pride, “we don’t want children” I felt immense sadness, knowing she truly didn’t understand love. Great essay Librarian.

Expand full comment
Art's avatar

As I stand on the threshold of becoming a grandpa, I can only confirm from one man’s perspective this reality. It’s like gazing into my own mortality and feeling the agony of inevitable death while also seeing a glimpse of immortality. I am receding into the past but my people persist and hopefully thrive. And the merit badges for parenthood are grey hair and worry lines. Not cool, but definitely transcendent .

Expand full comment
Librarian of Celaeno's avatar

I'm in middle age, but I have a looming understanding of what you mean. Infirmities remind us that death approaches, but children remind us that life endures.

Expand full comment
Shirlee's avatar

Congratulations on your up coming addition of “Grandpa” to your names of endearment. Hearing those special little ones call to you will bring you such happiness. Think of all the stories and memories they will be able to tell in the future when someone mentions “Grandpa”. “Where your heart is, there is your happiness.” Enjoy those pieces of your heart!

Expand full comment
Librarian of Celaeno's avatar

Thank you.

Expand full comment
Alan Schmidt's avatar

The greatest benefit the pro-natalism crowd gives is insight into obstacles to having children in terms of biohazards that are reducing fertility and medical interventions that help people who can't conceive (note: there are far more effective means than IVF). They also advocate pro-child policies that, while only increasing the birth rate a small amount, focuses society in a less consumerist direction to everyone's benefit.

At the end of the day, the minute you debate whether you should have kids, as opposed to it being a given, general society is already on the path to oblivion. The best you can do is create mini-societies that fosters childrearing as a given of adulthood.

Expand full comment
Librarian of Celaeno's avatar

That last part is very true, which is why I gave the example of sleeping. Imagine if there were widespread discussions in the media concerning whether people should sleep at night, as opposed to working an extra eight-hour shift, as that would be better for the GDP. It's when it's not automatic that it's problematic.

Expand full comment
Ahnaf Ibn Qais's avatar

It was 'Cool' in Central Europe to pursue natalism. This was especially so in the 1980s, & right after the Wall came down & places like Poland & Czechia had large Christian populations, eager, willing & ready to have large families en masse...

However, in the late 90s to the 2010s, that Status marker was displaced in favour of Economic Opportunity & Social Mobility. Yes, it was 'Cool’ in Warsaw to be a homemaker (as a woman) & a breadwinner (as a man), but it was MORE Cool to be a plumber in London or a Tradesman in Paris, making a lot more money which you sent back home to your family.

Soon, that morphed into the Sterile, Cosmopolitan lifestyle of living by yourself in these soulless European megacities, even if it meant delaying or outright foregoing family formation.

tl;dr- I wholeheartedly agree that this focus on 'Coolness’ is wrong. Children will NEVER be ‘Cool' in the superficial sense. They will always be one’s Responsibility & Cherishment... which in turn means that the whole gamut of human emotions will be felt as you raise them.

& if you doubt me, my Adorable 7 daughters & still relatively useless 3 sons can testify that I am Ubermenschen status & 'Uber-cool' & thus worthy of esteem. 😅

[Sorry, I had to Flex because you, good sir, Flexed as well with your adorable munchkins! 😉😘 ]

Expand full comment
Librarian of Celaeno's avatar

I'm happy for you to have been so blessed. My wife and I started late in life, not of our choosing. The sterile, cosmopolitan lifestyle is part of a wider range of options, all of which sound superficially preferable to having kids. But like any deal too good to be true, reading the fine print is essential. Everyone will give away their youth, energy, and time. The big question is, what are you getting in exchange?

Expand full comment
Graham Cunningham's avatar

I come across lots of theories about the global decline in baby-making but I have my own (albeit homespun and statistics-free) theory....one that I have labelled 'Androgyny Syndrome'.

"Amid all the current triumphalism on the Right at how the Orange Avenger is blasting its way down the corridors of the Evil Empire of Woke, it is worth pausing to notice that there are some dark recesses of the empire that seem - thus far – likely to survive relatively intact. Among them is the empire’s ‘social justice’ laboratory where the earth’s men and women are gradually being fused into ‘androgyns’. The causes of the 'fertility crisis’ are clearly complex and multi-dimensional but could it be that Androgyny Syndrome is one of them? As G. K. Chesterton observed a hundred years ago: “When all are sexless there will be equality. There will be no women and no men. There will be but a fraternity, free and equal. The only consoling thought is that it will endure but for one generation.” https://grahamcunningham.substack.com/p/the-androgyny-syndrome

Expand full comment
Librarian of Celaeno's avatar

I think that Chesterton and you are onto something. Certainly the dissolving of differences into a grey goo humanity is a big part of the neoliberal project.

Expand full comment
Kara Stanhope's avatar

People without children are still viewed as pathetic and when they assert that they aren’t (and perhaps list the ways they aren’t) people with children tend to respond by reminding them (if they’re female) of how their experience of love will always be stunted because “there is no love like what you feel for your children/grandchildren”. If this is true, it’s always struck me as slightly unkind. And there is the constant reminder that no one will take care of you when you’re old. Any rebuttal on these points is branded as selfish (disposable income/large 401k) and sad.

As for cool, anyone over 25 who cares or is influenced by being cool is sad, especially if they have kids.

Expand full comment
Von's avatar

>> If this is true, it’s always struck me as slightly unkind.

I'm not clear on what you are saying is unkind? The fact that their experience of love will always be stunted? Or pointing out that truth?

We do need to remember that something can be a lack, even if we are not responsible for the lack. Thus the man born blind will never experience the view of a sunset... and that is a lack, even if not his fault.

Expand full comment
User's avatar
Comment deleted
Mar 7
Comment deleted
Expand full comment
Dr Tara Slatton's avatar

We need to return to a society with moral values where admitting that your kid was conceived out of wedlock is the faux pas.

Expand full comment
Von's avatar

Except as a confession, obviously.

Expand full comment
Von's avatar

>>To their credit, they were very gracious about my faux pas

And why was this a faux pas?

Expand full comment
User's avatar
Comment deleted
Mar 8
Comment deleted
Expand full comment
Von's avatar

Ah. So you're not saying it was wrong, that that isn't the advice you would give, just that you didn't fully think about your circumstances?

Expand full comment
MLHVM's avatar

I've learned to be careful when talking to people who don't have children because you never know the reason they don't have kids. It might be a very painful reason for them, and not at all their fault. Conversely, it might be because they both have jobs and like going to disney world all the time and can't be bothered by sacrificing that for a child. You never know and, unless you know them well, it is probably a topic best left untouched.

Expand full comment
James's avatar

My wife calls it “sequencing issues.”

Expand full comment
Doctrix Periwinkle's avatar

What a great essay. As someone who never had children (in large part because of sacrificing opportunity on the altar of cool when I was younger and dumber than I am now), I'd like to add that it's never too late to stop trying to be cool and start helping to build a better future.

Even if you don't have kids, you can contribute to your community in a way that helps support parents with kids. You can volunteer and (especially since you may have extra cash since you're not spending it on your own kids) give material support to programs that help kids. You can help harried parents who are your neighbors with household tasks. You can just be welcoming of children in public spaces. You can role model non-consumerist values.

For myself, this is why I also get so much value out of teaching. It's one way of trying to help build a better future. And it reminds me that I am not, and never want to be, cool.

Expand full comment
Librarian of Celaeno's avatar

Thank you, and yes, there are many ways to be a part of children's lives without being a parent. Honestly, being there to ease the burden on a relative or friend can help out a great deal.

Expand full comment
Mike E's avatar

Great piece! Being a parent should transcend “cool” and I’m immediately suspicious of any parent striving to be the cool mom or dad.

My Mom, on the other hand, passed away surrounded by her five kids, their five spouses and their children.

It was way cool.

Expand full comment
Librarian of Celaeno's avatar

Instagram is full of cool moms. Make of that what you will.

Expand full comment
Mike E's avatar

That’s why I’m on boring, old Substack🤓

Expand full comment
Uncouth Barbarian's avatar

Make our own aristocracy, honor, and communities. Our own traditions, cultures, and societies.

Our own recreation, where by we will gain freedom from the soy slop that infects our brains and our bodies.

Then, you'll have the freedom to honor mothers and fathers, grandfathers and grandmas. Multigenerational families. People building up legacies that outlast themselves.

But yes; cool replaced the honorable and hard to achieve. It was given to the quick, trendy, goldfish minded of the world.

Don't be a goldfish, be a man.

Expand full comment
Librarian of Celaeno's avatar

That sounds like a positive vision.

Expand full comment
Uncouth Barbarian's avatar

I try to be a positive Uncouth Barbarian. Might as well fight for something Beautiful, Good, and True, if one is going to fight at all.

And this world is certainly full of people willing to shove our faces into the dirt, whether we’re willing or not.

Expand full comment
Caesar Anubis's avatar

Such a good piece. Thank you for sharing.

Expand full comment
Librarian of Celaeno's avatar

Thank you

Expand full comment
Eric F. ONeill's avatar

You mean my two sons didn’t make me cool? After all that money and tears?!? Oh, the humanity!

Expand full comment
Librarian of Celaeno's avatar

There's still time!

Expand full comment
Johanna Polus's avatar

I wholeheartedly agree with you that having kids is not cool and yet having them is transcendent. You can't really put the experience into words.

But as you say, raising them is a responsibility, even at times a burden. It's a burden best shared by married couples. So many young adults I know spent their childhoods shuttling back and forth between parents in shitty joint custody arrangements, I can't rightly blame them for being far less interested in having kids themselves. It requires a belief that, despite their parents' divorces, and the divorces of all their peers' parents, they can still make it work. In that vein, JD Vance is an aspirational figure since his mom was twice-divorced (and otherwise a mess) yet he still opted for marriage and children.

My own thinking is that fertility rates will continue to decline unless marriages stabilize. Lavish weddings and engagement rings seem to be going out, so I'm hopeful that's a sign that marriage is becoming less consumerist and less about self-actualization. I'll know things are really turning around once the female divorce memoir goes out of fashion.

Expand full comment
Librarian of Celaeno's avatar

Eat, Pray, Love would be banned in my kingdom as a public menace.

Expand full comment
The Brothers Krynn's avatar

This was a great article, I especially loved the part about 'becoming your parents'. I love it because I must admit that I had great parents and grandparents, and that for me the prospect of becoming more like my Dad and grandfather is a massive draw.

I've always I must admit struggled with 'cool' and never fit in with 'what's in style' and have always been old-fashioned as my Dad and mother and grandparents never much liked modern stuff, and always preferred older lit, older hobbies, older things and passed it down. So if it means no longer having the possibility of being 'cool' this seems like a natural step into the next phase of life.

That said, losing that last tether to youth is always appealing, as you must grow up sometime or so I think. It is something I admire in others and am eager for, hope that doesn't sound too odd. Because with it comes obligations, and a spiritual change and growth that will be good for me, just as I think it is good for all men and women to do.

Anyways this was a fantastic essay, really liking these pro-natalist/pro-parent essays people are writing.

Expand full comment
Librarian of Celaeno's avatar

Thank you very much.

Expand full comment
The Brothers Krynn's avatar

You’ll always be welcome, as you’re both a friend and a mentor Celaeno, I also hope to be a quarter of the scholar and Dad you are someday X).

Expand full comment
Madjack's avatar

Be in the world but not of the world. Children are a blessing from the Lord. Suffer the little children…

Expand full comment
Mary Catelli's avatar

Whoever receives one child such as this in my name, receives me; and whoever receives me, receives not me but the One who sent me.

Expand full comment
KMO's avatar

"...what many call “natalism.” My spellcheck tells me no such word exists..."

And the Substack text-to-speech reader doesn't know how to pronounce it. I wonder if it knows how to pronounce "anti-natalism?" I wouldn't be surprised if it did.

Expand full comment
The Horn Gate's avatar

Excellent, excellent piece. Having children is the biggest fuck you to the universe and death and nihilism - by having children it gives your life a how to live (for the benefit of someone not yourself) and thus gives you a why to live. There are so many arguments against antinatalism. I hate to repost my own work, especially on such a entertaining and well written essay (stolen glory and all) but I feel very strongly about this topic and would like to put forth some arguments against antinatalism in general (apologies Mr Librarian).

https://open.substack.com/pub/jason807/p/on-antinatalism?r=45vr7o&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false

Expand full comment
Librarian of Celaeno's avatar

Thank you. I liked your piece when it came out. I neglected to restack it then, but I’ve now done so.

Expand full comment
The Horn Gate's avatar

Muchas gracias, my dear Librarian!

Expand full comment
Jim in Alaska's avatar

Pretty cool essay! As a card carrying latter day beatnik I gotta say I'm down with it.

My two kids are a bit older than yours, 60 & 63. I still have hopes and think they just might turn out OK.

Expand full comment
Librarian of Celaeno's avatar

I’m sure they’re off to a great start.

Expand full comment